Karma Function Removed

[AndyC]

True enough. I think we can agree that the karma system is an easy option for someone who might otherwise say nothing, but it's also a lazy option for someone who might otherwise say more. 

[frank]

So, without any chance to improve our karma in this board, will we still have to be b-movie-lovers in our next lives???

(anyone feel free to move this to the random thoughts post)

[Ash]

When you get down to it, we all get to know each other through our posts.  When I look at you, Ash, I do not see a karma total.  I see you, as I have grown to know you over the years.

And I feel the same way about others on this board.
When I get ready to read someone's post or thread, I don't judge them by their total karma.  I judge them by what they've written now and in the past.  (maybe "judge" isn't the right word)

I think the karma feature is more for us to look at ourselves.  Kind of like a mirror to reflect how others see us.
It serves as a gauge to let me know if I'm doing poorly or great here on the board.



I've been hanging around here for almost 8 years now and for most of that time, the karma function was not available.
But since its introduction, it has become an important tool that I enjoy using. 

Remember when you first added the karma function?  I hated it! 
The thought of people dinging my karma points away because I wrote something that they didn't like was infuriating to me.  Over time I gradually learned to appreciate the karma system.  Like I mentioned above, it helped me determine if I was on the right or wrong track and definitely helped to steer me in the right direction.

Now that it's been taken away, the forum just doesn't feel the same...  

[Inyarear]

I confess to "smiting" everyone on a certain misplaced political thread three times in 18 hours; also to calling in one of my friends from another forum to do some smiting there. (He declares no hard feelings for the ban, Andrew. He doesn't do much posting these days anyway.) All the same, I think the reaction has hurt more than helped. (I didn't get any letter, by the way. Did you send me one?)

I ask this understanding from all of you: I've been in flame wars on other boards, and they tend to bring out the worst in me. Striking at ratings always seemed to me a good substitute for long rants that only bump the thread and keep the hatred burning. I'm not into censorship and trying to control what other people see or do not see, but I do like having some form of "bozo filter" and on here that's what the glorified popularity contest known as the karma rating has been. All things considered, if karma is not reinstated, I nevertheless think a post rating or ignore function would continue to encourage civility.

[Andrew]

I confess to "smiting" everyone on a certain misplaced political thread three times in 18 hours; also to calling in one of my friends from another forum to do some smiting there. (He declares no hard feelings for the ban, Andrew. He doesn't do much posting these days anyway.) All the same, I think the reaction has hurt more than helped. (I didn't get any letter, by the way. Did you send me one?)

I ask this understanding from all of you: I've been in flame wars on other boards, and they tend to bring out the worst in me. Striking at ratings always seemed to me a good substitute for long rants that only bump the thread and keep the hatred burning. I'm not into censorship and trying to control what other people see or do not see, but I do like having some form of "bozo filter" and on here that's what the glorified popularity contest known as the karma rating has been. All things considered, if karma is not reinstated, I nevertheless think a post rating or ignore function would continue to encourage civility.

Yes, I also sent you an email about the issue, because I try and allow people to explain their side of things.  I was checking my email and the forum this morning one last time before taking further action.

Pretty sure I know which of the two accounts I just banned was your friend, and he had not posted anything since December 2007.  His email address was also invalid, meaning I banned the account as soon as the email I sent him bounced.  In any case, did he believe I would react in some other fashion to the behavior?

Your friend's account was also generating a large number of errors related to posting while not logged in.  If he does not know what that was happening, I would suspect some sort of malware on the computer.

The karma system should never be viewed as a popularity contest.  I think that Darksider said it best in comparing the positive karma to a laugh.  It does not define who we are to each other.  It should never become something that overshadows the real goal:  trading knowledge, getting to know each other.

I appreciate the fact that you are willing to publicly state your part in the issue.  However, it was still a breach of trust, and something you knew was an abuse of the system.  I am emailing this response to you, as I am also banning your account for 10 days. 

[Patient7]

Andrew, right now I'm seeing just an applause button for everyone, does this work?  I don't want to accidently knock a persons karma out or something, still, KARMA'S BACK!!!

p.s. That is a fitting punishment I think, especially considering Inyarear is a regular on the forum.

[Andrew]

I started working on a fix for this last night.  Here is the fix:  the only karma allowed now is positive.  I'm doing something else to prevent abuse of that, meaning to allow me to spot any abuse.

Something I want to point out one last time is that the karma function should never define us to each other, or who is better.  It is just, as Darksider said, the equivalent of a laugh or other personal interaction we would naturally recognize.

[Rev. Powell]

Unfortunately, it is not.  The available options do not give the ability to restrict karma to positive only.

I guess it wouldn't be karma if it didn't cut both ways. Still, paying small compliments was the most practical use of the system. You could just go through and hand out karma for every clever comment without cluttering up the board with a lot of compliments that aren't quite worth making a post. I used to hand karma out like candy, but only posted a compliment when I really, really enjoyed something. Without the positive karma, I lose the ability to pay those little compliments.

My overwhelming use of karma was in the humorous captions threads.  Whenever someone made me chuckle out loud, I'd reach for the "applaud" button.  (Quite a few went to AndyC, by the way).  Those threads could get quite cluttered if everytime someone chuckled they posted a "thanks for the laugh."    

I used negative karma exactly once, when someone made a tasteless joke about a fellow board member.  I admit I used the ability to express disapproval anonymously as a substitute to calling him out publicly.  Maybe that would have been a better option; maybe it would have just started a pointless round of flaming.

Anyway, the karma function is not the heart and soul of the board.  If Andrew's judgment is that it's more trouble than it's worth, I'm cool with that, as I'm sure everyone else is.

EDIT: Oops.  Looks like my post is irrelevant already.  Karma to Andrew for fixing the karma problem!

[Patient7]

In that case, karma to Andrew for doing so much.

[CheezeFlixz]

I started working on a fix for this last night.  Here is the fix:  the only karma allowed now is positive.  I'm doing something else to prevent abuse of that, meaning to allow me to spot any abuse.

I was going to post that I thought there was a mod for SMF that allowed positive karma only, there was also a mod I believe that allowed both positive and negative and that negative require a reason. I know there is a another forum I go to that had that function but I now only has positive karma. There is also a mod for admin to track karma a little better, but you probably already know that.

Honestly, I think it's a reflection of society that people only want "atta-boys" and never a "aw-sh!t" even if it's not a reflection of the real world. As you know from being in the Marines as I know it takes 100 atta-boys to negate 1 aw-sh!t.   

But we live in a world that require everyone be ego stroked endlessly and it's just gotten ridiculous, much like that story I posted in weird news about a school play having 25 leads and no supporting actors. What has happened to this world? Sometimes you don't win.     

[Ash]

Andrew,

Thank you for reinstating the karma!  

I have to agree with Cheeze...
Negative karma should be allowed.
Like it was before.
We're all adults here.  (well, most of us are)
I think we can handle it.

If someone does what Inyarear did, ban them for a certain amount of time.
Make sure everyone knows that abuse of the karma system will not be tolerated. 
Is there any way the moderators can monitor the karma function?  Or is that only available to you?


What made you change your mind?

[Rev. Powell]

Honestly, I think it's a reflection of society that people only want "atta-boys" and never a "aw-sh!t" even if it's not a reflection of the real world. As you know from being in the Marines as I know it takes 100 atta-boys to negate 1 aw-sh!t.   

But we live in a world that require everyone be ego stroked endlessly and it's just gotten ridiculous, much like that story I posted in weird news about a school play having 25 leads and no supporting actors. What has happened to this world? Sometimes you don't win.     

I agree with you on the broader societal principle, but---it's just a message board, and one with a light-hearted mission.  I don't see why it has to reflect the harsh realities of the "real  world."

[Andrew]

This is a compromise.  Negative karma should be allowed, but I do not have an ability to track changes now.  I'm out of time with working on this problem at the moment.  My thought was that an only positive karma system should be less prone to abuse, as the issues I've tackled before have all been tied to negative karma.

Quite honestly, I have come to look upon the karma system and be unhappy.  It has been too open to abuse, and thereby causing too much strife.  However, there presently is not any good solution for this.  What is needed is a system that also tracks what post generated the karma, who gave it, and when.  Then you have full disclosure, which should prevent abuse and provide better feedback to the person getting the karma.

If I disagree with someone, I am not the type to hit the boo button.  I type out my disagreement.  As was said, giving good karma is just a shortcut that prevents a thread being full of "Ha!" or "Good point!"

Also, this install of SMF has a lot of modifications I have applied.  Quite often, to install an upgrade or modification requires me to manually make the changes.  It is very time intensive, and can be annoying as heck.

[Menard]

I confess to "smiting" everyone on a certain misplaced political thread three times in 18 hours; also to calling in one of my friends from another forum to do some smiting there. (He declares no hard feelings for the ban, Andrew. He doesn't do much posting these days anyway.) All the same, I think the reaction has hurt more than helped. (I didn't get any letter, by the way. Did you send me one?)

I ask this understanding from all of you: I've been in flame wars on other boards, and they tend to bring out the worst in me. Striking at ratings always seemed to me a good substitute for long rants that only bump the thread and keep the hatred burning. I'm not into censorship and trying to control what other people see or do not see, but I do like having some form of "bozo filter" and on here that's what the glorified popularity contest known as the karma rating has been. All things considered, if karma is not reinstated, I nevertheless think a post rating or ignore function would continue to encourage civility.

Although I don't care for the action as it is basically backstabbing, and something a conservative would do , I think the admission is upstanding and I'm impressed.

[Ash]

I think the admission is upstanding and I'm impressed.

I agree.
I gave Inyarear karma for being honest and owning up to his mistake.  
It was the right thing to do.  (for both me and him)